The Freelance Playbook

Directing A Feature Documentary with Rick Altizer [Ep194]

• Ariel Martinez

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On today's episode we talk to Rick Altizer director of the Kendrick Brother's "Show Me The Father".  It is a faith based documentary film centered around fatherhood which had a wide release in theaters last month. We dive into storytelling, Rick's approach to interviews, what got him started and his process to telling such a powerful story.

Rick Altizer
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Show Me The Father
 
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 Rick Altizer (00:00): You can always grab the B roll later, but that interview is where it's all happening. So it really is about that interview getting that right. And there's, there's a lot of ways to do that, right. And there's a lot of ways to do that wrong. I see a lot of things that look amazing, but it, it's not human. Ariel Martinez (00:25): Welcome back to another episode of the ifilmmaker podcast. My name's Ariel Martinez on this episode, I'm super excited. We are interviewing Rick Altizer. He's a director of this new film called show me the father. I'm excited to have Rick here to discuss this film a story, because it's a very, very powerful story or stories throughout the entire film, but it's very, very powerful based on fatherhood, a message that I firmly believe in. And I'm very excited to actually interview him because he is actually living out the dream that I really wanna do, which is have faith based documentaries. So I I'm personally very excited for this interview, but at the same time, Rick is also sharing some really great practical approaches to storytelling, to interviewing and his whole approach on this film and how he got to this part of his career. So it's really, really cool to hear from him and how he was able to work with the Kendrick brothers. If you're not aware, the Kendrick brothers are a big name right now in Christian films, they directed and produced films like fireproof, courageous, flywheel facing the giants. So all these are great films that in the Christian community are big, big names. I'm excited to have Rick alti on the show. I'm gonna stop rambling now, and I'm going to get into my interview with Rick Tizer Rick tyer. Thank you so much for coming on the eye filmmaker podcast. Rick Altizer (01:56): It's my pleasure. Thanks for, for asking me Ariel Martinez (02:00): Super excited to have you really, really big fan and I, you know, been loving your work, but also your most recent film. Show me the father. We're definitely gonna get into that. Want to talk more about that, but before we get started with that, if you could just go ahead and sort of give us an overlay of your, the scope of your work and sort of how you got started in your career year? Rick Altizer (02:25): Well, I started out as a recording artist, um, and, uh, so I have music projects. I'm a musician, I play all the instruments and, uh, so I have, uh, 6, 7, 8 albums or whatever out, um, but, uh, kind of transitioned into film, you know, when the music industry, after 2000 and Nate started tanking and you couldn't sell plastic anymore. And that was pretty much, uh, making music by selling products, you kind of became an end. We found an end to that. Mm. Uh, I transitioned into films and, uh, one thing led to another and I ended up, uh, directing for the first time a Christian comedian by the name of Shonda Pearon, uh, really had no, uh, no idea of how that happened, but it did. I ended up directing and documentary that went into theaters. It was a fathom event and wow, it's a number five movie in America, the night it came out and, um, did really well. Rick Altizer (03:25): So from there did four, four documentaries, they were all fathom events. They were all in theaters for one night. And then the Kendrick brothers, which are Christian filmmakers, who've made war room, courageous fireproof. They saw, uh, a, a movie I made for, for Russ TAF called I still believe that was in theaters. And they really liked that. And so they hired me to make this, which was my first, uh, wide screen, you know, main theatrical it's in about 1100 theaters nationwide for, you know, two week run. So I've done five, uh, document four, all five have been in theaters, but four of them were fathom events. I don't know if, if you're familiar with that, Ariel Martinez (04:05): I'm not, I'm not Rick Altizer (04:07): A fathom event is where, uh, AMC, Regal and cinema cinemas all got together and said, Hey, let's put, um, events on, on like Tuesday and Thursday nights. We call 'em movies, cuz we don't want to compete with, with the movie companies that, that provide us with our income. But let's call, you know, on a, on a, on a low, low turnout, Tuesday night, let's put on our own events. So you'll see the metropolitan opera, you'll see the sho ballet. I don't know if you've been to the movie theater and you'll see those, those ads for the opera ballet time. And it just for one night, you know, October 3rd, you know, at 7:00 PM, uh, you know, one or two nights. So that's what we did with our, with the four movies that I did prior to this one, they were in theaters, uh, like 800 theaters across the nation, but just for one night or two night nights, seven o'clock on a Tuesday and seven o'clock Thursday, one showing on each night. Mm. You know, all, all, you know, but everybody's playing it at the same time. Uh, so, uh, that's a fathom event. Okay. So did four of those and then this one was distributed by Sony. So it's my first, you know, main theatrical. Ariel Martinez (05:19): Wow. That's interesting. I I've actually, I think I've been to a few fathom events, um, with my church didn't know that that was the official name and sort of, that's kind of what it went were basically, uh, you know, we go there for one night showing and that's pretty much it. So that's pretty interesting to know about that. And so this has bit, so this, for this movie, it was this wasn't worldwide. You said it was about 800 theaters for show me the father. Oh, Rick Altizer (05:50): Show me, the father is in. No, the fathom events were, were now were here just in the states. And they were in about 800 theaters. Show me the fathers in about 1100 theaters. And um, and then it is also going to go worldwide. It's in Singapore now. Okay. Uh, next month it's gonna be going in through all, all of Latin America and, uh, Brazil as well. So, um, it's funny watching the, watching with, you know, the different, you know, people go in and record the, the voiceover in their own language and it's pretty awesome to watch it, you Ariel Martinez (06:24): Know, they dub it Rick Altizer (06:26): In Portuguese or, you know, whatever. So that's pretty cool. Ariel Martinez (06:28): Yeah. Every time I, I see those Spanish subtitled, uh, those dubbed, uh, Spanish movies. It's pretty funny when it's not the actual person talking. Rick Altizer (06:38): Yeah. It's great. But yeah. What a, what a blessing and an honor to have this movie, uh, on screens all over America and then all over the world. It's, it's, it's pretty humbling and you know, wow. So it's amazing. It's Ariel Martinez (06:53): Insane. So you started filmmaking in 2008, Rick Altizer (06:59): Um, is no, I didn't really start no, Uhuh. I don't think I started filmmaking till around 2014, 2015. Really? Ariel Martinez (07:10): So it was an eight when the music industry was kind of in decline. Cause people were not Rick Altizer (07:14): Practicing that's when everything Ariel Martinez (07:15): Okay. But you didn't Rick Altizer (07:17): Gets until Ariel Martinez (07:18): 2014, you said? Rick Altizer (07:19): Yeah. About 20 14, 20 15. Yeah. Um, I, I, Ariel Martinez (07:25): Wow. Rick Altizer (07:25): I had been, I had been working for, uh, a Christian comedian by the name of Shonda Pierce. I'd been helping her with, uh, some music projects for her. And also I'd done a little bit of video work with her. Like, Hey, Tulsa, Oklahoma, I'm coming, coming into your town. I'll be there, you know, on whatever date. And I would put those little videos together for her. And so she said to me, Rick, I wanna, I wanna make movies. And uh, I said, well, gosh, I can't, I can't help you make a movie, but I can, I can, uh, we can do a demo tape. Right. And I don't know if you remember way back in the day when you'd wanna get a record deal, you'd do a little cassette. You put your three songs on a cassette tape. That's all I back of the day. Rick Altizer (08:09): Yeah. Yeah. So you do three songs on a, on a cassette tape and you'd send that to the record company. And if the record company liked what they heard, they would say, Hey, why don't you come into our studio? And let's put you in with a real studio with a real producer, let's do a few more songs. And so I said, why don't we do, I'll go on the road with you for, for a weekend and get five minutes and maybe we'll send it to some people. And maybe they'll like it. And I had never, uh, had a film class I'd never wanted to do films. I never wanted to be a director. I haven't had one course, one class. Wow. Nothing. Ariel Martinez (08:44): Okay. Rick Altizer (08:44): Um, no, no, uh, training. And, but I saw my son, Dave, if I call him David, but he goes by Dave Mays, which is a cool name, you know, but, uh, um, and he was doing wedding videos. Yeah. Putting, and, and I saw what he was doing there telling little stories and with he had the DSLR point and shoot. So I had a little T three, I camera, yes. And a Sigma, a Sigma 30 millimeter fixed lens. And one of those $20, uh, uh, shoulder mounts that, you know, it was like 20 bucks or whatever. Right. And, uh, so, uh, I went on the road with her for a weekend and ended up putting together 16 minutes, uh, on the road with her and her life. A lot of really heavy things were going on in her life personal. And we got into a lot of that and it, it, it turns out that interviewing and getting deep things outta people was just, I, you know, it was something I could do. Rick Altizer (09:44): I didn't know that that was there. And, and, uh, so I put 16 minutes together and they, her manager and her took me to a pizza pizza joint. Nashville. Yeah. I still remember where we were. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and they said, Rick, we, we love this. We think you need to make this. We don't want anybody else to make this, this, you need to do this and can you do this? And I kind of gulped and, uh, you know, went into a panic attack inside, but on the outside it was like, gulp, you know? Sure. Oh man. I thought it was gonna be for her, you know, just for her product table. Right. Right. She goes and goes on tour. And does these com I figure it's gonna be in her product table? Well, she had lost her man. A booking agent had run off with some of her money and wow. Rick Altizer (10:27): All of her bookings kind of fell through and she's like 200 grand in the hole. And all of a sudden they're putting $250,000 in marketing. This movie, it's gonna be a fathom event and it's gonna be on screens. And the pressure was just, cuz I didn't know what I was doing. I was totally making, I was literally making it up as I went. Wow. And um, but we had a good editor. I brought in what I thought was a rough edit. He goes, this isn't a edit, you edited a movie. So he gave me an editor credit and uh, it did really well. It was like I said, it's called lapping in the dark. It's on Amazon prime. You can, you can watch it. Wow. Her husband, uh, her daughter had become estranged from her and didn't let her communicate with her or her grandchild. Rick Altizer (11:16): And her husband was so distraught over this that he started at 50, started drinking. And then as we're making this movie, he literally drank himself to death. Wow. So, so what starts out is this movie about a woman who, you know, funny comedian on the road, Christian comedian, it turns into a whole other story of how do you navigate your life and your faith when everything blows up. I mean, everything, she lost everything. So wow. Very, very different kind of movie, very powerful movie. And uh, it's still, like I said, it's still on Amazon prime, Shawnda, Pierce laughing in the dark. You can see it, but don't judge me. I, you know, half the shots are me on auto focus. I've got the T three I on auto focus. Right. And, and uh, but coming from a music background, have a recording studio. I was able to get audio clean. So I was able to get, okay, the feed off the board she's doing live. I was able to get a good clean feed off her, off the audio board. Yeah. So her, her live concert sounded great. And uh, when I'm interviewing her, I've got a, you know, a little road live, Allaire going to a zoom H $100, zoom H one in her pocket that works. Ariel Martinez (12:31): That works. I remember it Rick Altizer (12:32): Works. I got, I got good clean audio. And what I found out, which I didn't know of course, is that when you're doing film, audio's more important than video. There you go. You know, you learned a Ariel Martinez (12:41): Very, I have there, Rick Altizer (12:44): You can have messed up footage, but if your audio's bad, you're done. Yeah. You can't use it. Very true. Can't use it. So I couldn't let technical prowes get in the way there was no technical prowes for me to, to have, I mean, I'm filming things on auto focus for crying out loud. And so, um, my David did come in halfway through and then he did film stuff and it, and all this stuff in the movie that looks semi-decent, that's David with his little, uh, you know, black magic pocket, cinema camera. There you go. Anyway, Ariel Martinez (13:17): You Rick Altizer (13:17): Know, we did that right shoot on 10 80, right. Or 10 80 black magic pocket cinema camera. Uh, but that, that, that was so that's how that kind of started. And then it just kind of went from there. And I guess since, I guess the last six, seven years probably. Wow. I've been doing this so done five projects in seven years. That sounds about right. Maybe eight that's about right. Ariel Martinez (13:40): Has Dave been able to, to help you out on any of the shooting? Rick Altizer (13:45): Yeah. Well, he helped me on the first, uh, the first three. Okay. That I did. And then he went out to LA right. And he lived in, in LA for a while. I'm in Nashville. Right, right. So then I lost him there and now he's back in Nashville, came back in, in February. We had done most of our filming for show me the father by February, but he's, you know, has a, a, a job now that is keeping him pretty busy. So, uh, I haven't had an opportunity to work with him on the last two. Got Ariel Martinez (14:13): It. Rick Altizer (14:14): Uh, really, but, uh, I, I always loved, you know, I gave him the director photography credit, you know, and, and he does. He's so good. So talented, the shoot shots look so good. Him and a camera man. He can do, he can do great stuff. I'm, Ariel Martinez (14:28): That's awesome. Rick Altizer (14:29): It's great. Having a son, you know, that can make things look so good. That's great. Ariel Martinez (14:34): That helped. And it's, it's, I don't wanna say ironic because I think that everything has a purpose, but it's great that both of you can bond through this same art form yeah. Of cinematography and filmmaking. That's fantastic. Rick Altizer (14:46): Um, yeah, it's a real gift to be able to work with my son. And so the Russ TAF movie it's called Russ TA. I still believe it's on YouTube. You can, you can stream it now. Fantastic. We have a company that's put out and they've put it up just for free. You can just stream it Ariel Martinez (15:00): For free. I'll be putting all the links to all of these in the show notes for this episode. Oh great. Rick Altizer (15:04): Absolutely. And, uh, and David did all the cool handheld shots. That's all David. Ariel Martinez (15:10): So good. So documentary filmmaking requires really good storytelling. Right. So that's a very important aspect of this. So like you said, it's not about the talent behind the camera, but it's really approaching story. You obviously know how to tell a story. I saw the film, I saw show me the father very well done storytelling. Um, how did you, I mean, what was, how did you unfold this talent of storytelling? Rick Altizer (15:42): Well, um, what I do when I do interviews is I don't go in with notes. Ariel Martinez (15:48): Okay. Rick Altizer (15:49): I'm not sitting there looking at a sheet while the guy's talking to me, we're reading off of a reading off of a sheet of paper while someone, you know, I, I do eye contact, I engage and it's just a conversation like you and I are having right now, you know? So I'll, I make a, a point to listen and to not go in with preconceived ideas of what I want this to be, or I want to hear, but to ask questions, to let them talk and then engage with them and then maybe give them some, like, I'll hear some things that I know are gonna connect dots with somebody else that somebody else might have said a month earlier. Sure. And so I might give them some things to help connect a few, you dots for them. And then say, would you comment on that? Um, in the movie, show me the father, Steven talks about his daughter, who he went to China to adopt they're on the plane and she's screaming and crying, you know, the whole plane ride back from China to New York. And he said, she doesn't know who she is. Rick Altizer (16:54): She doesn though, she's Mia, Elizabeth Kendrick. And as she was, as he was saying that, you know, I was connecting with that going, man. There's so many of us who don't know who we are. That's right. We don't know that God's our father. Right. There's so many of us who don't know, don't believe, you know, we're functional orphans. So then I was able to have a talk with Steven. Then after he talked about that, then say, well, you know, so many of us don't know who we are and we go to church and we, but we don't really believe, or we struggle with God, cuz we had a rough relationship with our dad or whatever. And we struggle with the whole concept of God. Yeah. And we're functional orphans. We just don't believe we have a dad. You know? So I, I will have this kind of conversation with him then I'll say, would you like to calm on that? Rick Altizer (17:36): Would you comment on that? So then he'll basically kind of resay what I just said, you know, but it helps connect dots. Right. Um, and so, um, listening, paying attention, being engaged, having it conversational, being able to get them to be, uh, relaxed and not a lot of times these professional speakers, like we talked to Tony Evans, who's a pastor. Yeah. You know, and he's used to getting up on, on uh, you know, in front of thousands of people and doing his thing. Right. And so there's a, there's an art to getting them to not do their thing. Right. I don't want their thing. I don't want 'em to get up there and do their thing. I want them to just be a regular human being and maybe get something deeper. Okay. That you wouldn't get when they're doing their thing. So being able to say, Hey, you know, this is just a conversation. Rick Altizer (18:29): I know that. And maybe even say, I know that you, you're such an amazing speaker and public speaker and you have a way you can talk, but I don't want to, I don't wanna do that for this. You know, this is just you and me going to, uh, you know, a restaurant and we're sitting across a table from each other and we're just talking, you know? So if I can put them at ease and another of way I do that, we're just rambling all over the place here. Another way I do that is I don't, I don't go in with a big crew. I go in with two guys, me and two guys. I don't want 30 people showing up or 20 people showing up. I do two guys. We, you know, they do the lights. They're the two cameramen. They do lights. I kind of handle on because I'm, you know, I'll set up the boom mic and do that myself, sit down and have a conversation. Rick Altizer (19:16): And it is comfortable. We usually do it in their home. I don't try to get a real fancy showy location. I don't want a big, you know, something looks at us. Some like some, I don't know, right? Like it's some kind of a, like you're doing some kind of advertisement. I don't want some big fancy location cuz then it's just gonna be a, you know, they're not gonna feel comfortable. I like 'em in their home. I like 'em in a comfortable setting. It might not look as cool. But what I get is better. I get better. It's more intimate. It's more relational. Right. And what I'm, what, what I do now a lot, there are different kinds of documentaries. There's different kinds of stories and different ways to tell a story. Some people tell a story, very informationally, you know, I'm giving you the information. Rick Altizer (20:03): Did you know this? And did you know that and this, this happened and this happened. It's just kind of information. But for me, the, what, what I do is relational. I like to relate. And okay. So instead of communicating information, I'm focusing on communicating feelings. How did that feel when that happened? There you go. What were you, what were you feeling when that happened? So my, I did an, an interview with Shawnda. Pearon her husband, who at the time were separated. She was doing the tough love as he was struggling with his alcoholism. And we did an interview with them. And Dave said, afterwards, dad, that was like a counseling session. And it was, it was a, a lot of my interviews are counseling sessions. And after that interview, they moved back in together, you know? So it was able, wow. I was able to help them process some things. Rick Altizer (20:57): So what I find when you interview someone, if you can help them process as the camera's rolling, they discovering something about themself that they might not have ever really discovered before. And if you can capture that, that is amazing because that really draws you in cuz cuz we relate to that. You know, we relate to how things feel and how things, how things are. And, and there is a lot of emotion and show me the father. I mean, anytime you start talking about dads, you're opening up. Yeah. I mean it can be, I love my dad so much. He, you know, I miss him. I, I had such a great relationship with my dad or my dad wounded me so bad. Right. But either way, it's, it's emotional. So being able to, uh, tap that emotion to find that emotion in the story and to communicate it without it getting too sappy, which I hope we didn't, I don't think we did. Rick Altizer (21:57): But um, to me that's the power of what, what a doc film can do that other things can't do there's stuff and show me the father. I don't wanna give any, anything away. Right. There's stuff in it that if we were gonna do a scripted piece and I was just say, oh, let's do this. You'd go, oh, no way. You'd never believe that. That's ridiculous. And what makes it so powerful is that it's true. It's real. And so there's, there's a couple of, there's a couple of what moments in a couple of them that you go, oh my goodness. You know, people you're hearing audible gasps, right. You're hearing audible gasps in the audience. So, um, so those are, those are important for me. And every different people do different kinds of things. But for me, I want to do, uh, relationship relational pieces, right. Rick Altizer (22:46): That communicate big truths that communicate something big. So with Russ TA he, he talked about his alcoholism. He was a Christian recording artist, a secret alcoholic living in, hiding in hiding, going to church and pretending everything's okay. So I wanted, we wanted to make a piece that would help people come outta hiding, you know, Hey, if you're struggling with something, come outta hiding and tell, talk someone about it. You know? And, and so that that's helped a lot of people who've struggled with addiction issues. And so many people struggle with fatherhood issues, right. And how they relate to God and it's a big topic. And so we wanted to make something that would be big, that would help people. And to me, that's so fulfilled is to seeing now how the people who've seen it, how they're reacting and people who haven't talked to their dad in 20 years are calling and re reconnecting with their dad because they saw this movie and now there's reunions and right. Things happening and Ariel Martinez (23:47): Such a need people Rick Altizer (23:48): Are having, and people are having major spiritual encounters with God after seeing this. Right. So, uh, that to me, that's so Ariel Martinez (23:58): Good, Rick Altizer (23:59): That's it? That's, that's why we did it. Ariel Martinez (24:01): Oh, amazing. And Rick Altizer (24:03): You know, any other a, it gets or whatever, just, you know, right. Ariel Martinez (24:09): And how not, Rick Altizer (24:09): Not Ariel Martinez (24:10): How much is it easier? Do you feel that it's easier to tell this story or stories? Um, when you have, like, you, you're invested in this, this, this whole, this is a message that you can really relate to. This is a message, uh, like I've said for me in my church, we have a big men's, uh, ministry there. Uh, this is something that is right up our alley. You know, when you are hired to do a film like this, for a message that you really really believe in, does that make it much easier to tell this story? Rick Altizer (24:44): Well, yeah. I mean, um, uh, my own personal journey is, is all through it and, uh, you know, I wrote it and so, so much of my own journey with God was a part of this. Mm. And I do feel like so much has kind of happened in my life. That's per prepared me to do this. Right. Like I never knew why I was making documentaries. I didn't know why, why in the world? I never even wanted to make documentaries. Why in the world am I making documentaries? And I think it was to do this movie. Wow. I think God was preparing me to make this Ariel Martinez (25:23): That's good. Rick Altizer (25:23): And um, so, uh, yeah. I, I, what was the question again? I'm sorry. Ariel Martinez (25:30): Does it, does it help you, does it help you to make a film like this when you yourself know and really, truly believe in the message, the overall message that the film is, is, uh, telling? Rick Altizer (25:42): Sure, sure. I mean, um, I, we didn't really know when we started this, we started this, uh, December of 2019 before COVID right before COVID we started doing this. Okay. Rick Altizer (25:56): And we didn't really know what it was gonna be about. We just knew we wanted to do something on the fatherhood of God. And I knew that I wanted to highlight, um, how we, we look at God, we have this lens and on this lens, or this piece of glass is an image of our earthly dad. Right. And we, we look at God through that lens and we project onto God, these traits of our dad. And so, um, we struggle with God because we, we think he's like our dad and he's not. And so, you know, my, our work is to erase that image of our earthly dad so that we can see God for who he is. So we actually included that in show me the father, we included that we kind of filmed that. Yeah. And did that, but that was, that was kind of going into it. Rick Altizer (26:45): That was, was what I wanted to communicate with the film was we struggle with how we connect with God based on our own relationships with our own earthly dad. And so many times we project on God traits of our dad and, and, and also so recognizing that we're orphans. So those were things that going into it. I wanted to be able to boy, to be gr this is what I would like to talk about. And so then we get these different stories. People start their stories, you have no idea, the Sherman Smith and the D Macola and the other stories. We had no idea we were gonna get in any of that really? And with every, with every documentary, you just have no idea how it's gonna turn out everyone I've ever done. You think it's gonna start one thing. It just turns into something completely different and things come your way and things come along that you weren't planning on. Rick Altizer (27:42): We weren't planning on Shauna's husband dying in the middle of a, our do you know, and this story came to us. Some of these stories came to us that we had no idea. And then it just turns out Sherman loves the Lord. And he's a strong believer. And it's like, oh my goodness, what an amazing story. And this, just these things that we had no concept going into that this is what we're gonna do. Right? So you, you film, you do your interviews, you follow what you got. Obviously with that story, it, it meant we needed to talk to, uh, D and his mom and Sherman's wife and D's wife, you know? So there's all these other things that we now had to do. Yeah. When that story came along and then other stories came to us and we filmed that and followed those through. Rick Altizer (28:26): And, and so by October of last year, okay. Here's all of our, you know, I've got books and books and books, notebooks, uh, what they're here, maybe two feet full of eight and a half by 11 transcripts, you know? Wow. And so then comes the arduous process of going through all the transcripts. And then cuz I've got 12 documentaries in there, maybe 15 with everything you're recording. So the question is, yeah. You know, I could make maybe 15 different documentaries. Right. So the big question is, okay, I've got 90 minutes. What am I gonna make? You know? And so that's the big calling, huge, uh, we had everything transcribed. I put it all eight and a half by 11 sheets of paper. And then I highlighted the things I liked. Right. Then I took all those highlights out and I made another document, all these other documents. Then I highlighted again, took those out. Same thing, made another document with, with the, the double highlighted. Then I did it a third time. Right. So I'm just, I'm Whitling down, whittling down and then hang on. Don't go away. Speaker 3 (29:36): Go ahead. Rick Altizer (29:39): And then I'll see if, I'll see if this plays on this. And then I, I took all of my, uh, the, the pieces that I highlighted and set 'em on these 8, 4, 4 and a half, four by six index cards. Okay. Rick Altizer (29:57): And so then I've got all the index cards in here. And so now here's all the pieces that I'm going to use now for my, for my, uh, for my movie. And then I just start moving things around in the index card box and, and I made all this up. I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know. This is called a paper edit. Oh yeah. I had never heard the word paper edit and I had had an editor tell, tell me, you know, Rick, they have like teams like 12 people who do this, don't you? No goes, that's called a paper edit. So, um, so, but I, I like the index cards because I can move them around. I can create chapter headings and I can kind of tell the story that way. So wow. Rick Altizer (30:39): Everything to me is story it's story. I don't worry about the B roll. As a matter of fact, I put in the schedule time to shoot B roll after editing. So I'll get my story. Right. And then we'll do an edit with just talking heads with no B roll. And then I say, okay, we need this B roll. We need that. We need that. Right. So I'll go and put in this, in the schedule, we're gonna edit for two weeks or whatever. And then I went three weeks off to go do some B roll and grab cuz then once I, cuz I never really know what I'm gonna use until I get to the point. Of course I've got so many stories, we interviewed Eddie, George, we got all kinds of stories from about Eddie and different, different football players and different, different things that we had. Some of it we used and some of it we didn't. So I don't wanna go spend a lot of time filming B-roll on things I'm not gonna use. Right. So, um, but yeah, story, story, story, story, it's all. And nothing can get in the way of that. Nothing. And you have to fight for it, right. Rick Altizer (31:51): That nothing can Trump's story ever. Ariel Martinez (31:56): How, when you sat down on these interviews, you said you don't know, you didn't know what you were gonna get. Rick Altizer (32:04): Right. How Ariel Martinez (32:05): Did you approach the questioning to get what you got? Did you sort of started pulling on threads, uh, opportunities? Rick Altizer (32:15): Well, I knew, yeah. I kind of knew what the stories were. I didn't do pre-interviews I don't want okay. To have somebody tell me something and then have 'em tell me again now that the cameras on and all now, now all of a sudden they're performing it. So I didn't want any performances. So I, if we're, you know, I'll meet 'em and we'll talk and we'll try to, I'll try to get, I had lunch with Sherman and we tried to get, but if they start getting into the story, it's like, you know what? Let's wait, let's wait on that. Let's tell me that later, you know, we just kind of get to know each other. They get to know me. I, I talk about my heart and what I want to do and what my focus is and what I'm looking to do. Um, so that they understand me a little bit. Rick Altizer (32:59): So, so they feel comfortable around me. And, and so I think that is a, is a huge thing, is if I can help them to feel comfortable with me right. That they can trust me. And, and so I I'm locking eyes. My, my eyes are locked, you know, that's good. Just when we're having that conversation, we'll have a three hour conversation and it wears me out. I mean, I'm, I'm worn out by the time it's done because I'm engaged, my eyes are locked. I'm, you know? Mm I'm giving facial, you know, like I'm hearing them and I'm giving them all kinds of validation. Right. When they're talking about something's helpful, you know? Oh, you know, and, and oh really? You know what I'm, you know, so I'm, I'm trying to be animated but engaged with them. Right. And, and I find that when we have that engagement, um, they're, they open up and they're able to share things that they wouldn't think they would share in front of a camera. Rick Altizer (33:55): And that's to me is that's the key is getting the story underneath the story. Mm. Uh, which is here's, here's what happened. Okay. That's a story. Here's what happened. All right. But here's how it made me feel. Mm. Now that's a whole other story. Yeah. And that's something that now you're bringing it into a relationship thing. Now I'm, I'm being vulnerable with you and I'm, I'm telling you how, I'm, how I process that emotionally. That's a whole other level of just, here's some information. So being able to, um, yeah, I've been married for 36 years. I've had a lot of work out how to communicate. Well, still haven't figured it out in case you're wondering, oh man, um, still haven't figured that one out, but I work real hard at it. I do. Got it. And, uh, so, but those skills all come in handy. Rick Altizer (34:57): I mean, it's very much, uh, I think a good interviewer is a great listener. Uh, a, a good interviewer will be a counselor. Somebody that's helping people process their feelings and emotions and being able to learn how to verbalize it. Um, so those are all, and that's the particular thing I do. You know, when you see the five, five docs I've made, right. You see that there's, there's a, there's an emotion to it. Uh, people are crying right. When we showed it at, we showed it at the first time we ever showed it was that the Southern Baptist convention with 800 pastors, 800 in one, in a room, we showed it to 800 people. First time an audience had ever seen it. There was a man in front of me and he was sobbing. I mean, his head was, was, I mean, he was visibly, wow. Literal is shaken. And we talked afterwards and he shared his fatherhood story, but it hit him. But that's what you saw. You saw. That's Ariel Martinez (36:04): What the film does. Uh, Rick Altizer (36:07): Yeah, that's what it does. And, um, that's, what's so powerful about film is that it can connect cerebrally and emotionally at the same time, right. A film will do something that out a sermon can't do. It does something that a book can't do, books of sermons are great at communicating information and doing things, but, um, or a public speaking or whatever, but there's just something about a film that connects thought and emotion and helps you process it in a way that's so powerful. And, uh, when, when it's true, uh, a lot of Christian films want to do that. They want to connect with you emotionally, but some of the stories, you kind of feel like, eh, you know, that's a little, you know, contrived and right. It just doesn't have the same, but this is all true. That's what makes it so powerful. Ariel Martinez (37:00): That is very powerful. Rick Altizer (37:01): Is that really communicating truth? Ariel Martinez (37:02): It had so much depth in the story that it was, you just can't help. I, I mean, I can understand, uh, the, the, the, the gentleman sobbing a little bit, uh, I think I sh I shed a, a tear or two, uh, while I was watching a film, but was that powerful? It really was that powerful. And it hits, it hits very close to the message that we've been, you know, sort of portraying. So it really, it was very, very powerful. Um, Rick Altizer (37:32): And, and I do wanna give a, a, you know, just a shout out to Mark Miller, the producer of the movie. Okay. Uh, mark and I, uh, we edited the movie together. So, so much of what you saw as far as storytelling and getting that through was, was mark as well. Steven Kendrick was also involved on the back end of just kind of finalizing some things. And he was much more, uh, not that he didn't care about story or emotion, but he was very focused on, uh, the teaching aspect on how things taught. Mm. So I, I think it was a good blend of that's great of teaching stats, father fatherhood stats. Does this thing make sense? And is this thing connecting emotionally? I think together it was all blended real well. And that's kind of what each person kind of brought, but with Mark Miller and Steven Kendrick and myself, I, I really felt like that was a great team, which was different from my other movies, cuz the other movies were just, were all me. Right. And uh, um, I remember one, one day on the Shonda movie, I had a 18 hour day, a 20 day and a 22 hour day in one week and day. My, my son, yeah. In one week. Wow. 18 hour day, a 20 hour day and a 22 hour day. Wow. In a week. Geez. Um, and my son came in one day. I remember I was sitting here in my office and he came in, this was Dave and he said, don't have a heart attack, dad. I'm like, yeah. Rick Altizer (39:01): Goes and he looks at me, he's real serious. He goes, dad don't have a heart attack. I mean, he was serious. It's like, you're, you're gonna, you're gonna kill yourself. Keep doing this. You gotta stop. Right. And that was one of the things Stephen Kendrick said, he goes, I don't want you doing those 80 hour weeks. You know, I don't want you working like that on this. We're gonna help you or I'm gonna give you help, but we don't want you doing that. So that was great that he was concerned about me that in that way and showed it, uh, and it was a total different experience on this mm. Working with some other people. So that was great. Ariel Martinez (39:33): That's awesome that, you know, even the creators of a film like this is not, they they're, they're living this, they're simply sharing their, their experiences. Um, and that's what I mean earlier in my question where, you know, when you're living this, and this has been your message, it's, it's probably easier sort of to, to put this story together because you kind of know what you're looking for and you know, how you want to put together. And at the end, when you see the final product, you can then ask, it's just the message that we're, that we've been trying to tell people, is this how we want to sort of relate it, which is awesome. You know, this, this ends up being more than just a paycheck. This ends up being your, the, the message that, that you're living, you know, and it's such, in my opinion, it's a, it's an extraordinary, an extraordinary blessing to be able to sort of have a livelihood, you know, you know, uh, in, in the industry at the same time, uh, helping relate the word of God. So that's, that's phenomenal. Rick Altizer (40:36): It's a, it's amazing. Uh, it's a real blessing. I, I had gone my wife and I went, started going to a new church about six years ago and they had this program and it called sonship an older man. Who's one of my mentors. His name was Jeff Saison. And our pastor Mike Graham kind of took, took us through this, um, really intense 16 week course on seeing our, or, you know, seeing our orphan hood, how, how we view God as orphans and how we don't believe, you know, just how much unbelief we operate in. And it was so huge for me to go through this. And I, you know, I credited Jeff and Mike in the, in the credits I gave him, you know, I gave him credits cause, um, that's really what this movie is. It, it it's it's uh, came outta that sonship course. Rick Altizer (41:39): And so I feel like God led us to this church and led me to those two guys to take me through that personally. So I could deal with some of my own fatherhood issues with God, so that then I could, I could, uh, make this movie and, uh, and then, you know, for it to be called the Kendrick brothers, show me the father, the Kendrick brothers have such a huge market. Right. And then they started doing all this promo for it. They did like 200 interviews and you know, it was like, man, this is great. Everybody's thinking they made it. And that's fine because they'll go buy movie tickets. Yeah. If they thought I made it or mark and I made this, no one's gonna buy any movie tickets to see anything we make. Right. So, uh, people were asking, Hey, are you, was that hurtful? Are you upset about that? You know? And, um, no, uh, I'm uh, thank and grateful to, to be able to have the opportunity. And I recognize, uh, the reason it's in theaters is because it's called the Kendrick brothers. Show me the father. Of Ariel Martinez (42:44): Course. Rick Altizer (42:45): Yeah. That's why Sony put it in theaters. Right. Because their names on it. So great man. Right. It's awesome. Ariel Martinez (42:52): Do you, do you plan, slide, hope to make more films like this? Rick Altizer (42:59): Yeah, I definitely do. I wanna make a part two, show me the father part two, my father's eyes. I wanna make one for women. Okay. That's focused on, um, how Instagram and Facebook and our image and how we look and how you have to look perfect. And, um, you know, the, just what women have to go through with how they see themself and how the society sees themself. And now they have to, now they're, now they have to be men. They can't just be women. Now they gotta do all the things we do too, as if it wasn't bad enough. Now they got, now they're taking on a, all our junk too. Right. So it's really difficult. And uh, you know, I know I'm a guy, but that doesn't mean I can't right. Find women to tell this story. I think I could steward this story well, right. Um, just how, how God sees us as opposed to what society says, I need to be in how I need to look and appear. And, and, Ariel Martinez (44:02): You know, that's a very, Rick Altizer (44:03): The pressure is intense. Ariel Martinez (44:05): It's a very, very needed message these days. Rick Altizer (44:08): It is. And so I wanna, I, I just don't think we're done with the fatherhood. Ariel Martinez (44:13): That's good message. Rick Altizer (44:14): So I've, I've presented that to the Kendricks. I mean, of course, you know, to get a movie in theaters is expensive. Yeah, Ariel Martinez (44:21): No, yeah. You know, it's an investment for sure. Rick Altizer (44:23): And, uh, and so with COVID and stuff, it's still kind of up in the air on if gonna do it again, you know, I don't, I don't know if they will, um, I'd like to make that. Yeah. I'd like to make it, I mean, Ariel Martinez (44:38): But there's still, there's still streaming options and whatnot for, for, for projects like that still. Rick Altizer (44:45): And so those would just, that would influence our budget. Sure. You know, how it's gonna be distributed, then influences how you make it and, uh, how you go about doing that. So what we found out, uh, if a movie is made for an audience 20 and under, it's doing great, it's doing great at box office. Any movie made for an audience 20 and older is suffering. Don't matter what it is. Really. Every movie for an audience 20 and up is suffering. So they're just that audience is just not going to theaters right now. They're just, they've had a year and a half of streaming, you know, things and their, their getting used to watching their, their media on, you know, on prime and Hulu and whatever they're doing. And right now they're not going to theaters. I mean, you, you go and walk into a theater and it's just dead, you know? So, but Shane, Cheese's doing well, Disney cruise did well. You know, things for kids are doing good, but other than that, Ariel Martinez (45:49): Got it Rick Altizer (45:50): Not so not. So, Ariel Martinez (45:52): All right. Well, I'm definitely looking forward to, uh, the part, two of, uh, show me the father, definitely wanna take a look at those. Where can people find you and, and sort of see what you've done and sort of follow you? Rick Altizer (46:06): Oh, you can go to my website. Rick ties.com. Great. Um, a L T I Z E R. Ariel Martinez (46:13): Great. And let, last thing, you, you also have a podcast, you have a show, don't you? Rick Altizer (46:18): Yeah. The Rick Tizer show. I've done about 170 interviews and, um, it's with Christian media makers. So, you know, filmmakers, actors, songwriters behind the scenes. Awesome. Uh, you know, in the business, Ariel Martinez (46:33): You've had to Kennedy brothers there, as I caught, Rick Altizer (46:36): I've had the Kendricks. Yep. I've had the Irwin brothers. So a lot of, lot of filmmakers and actors, Kevin Sobo has been on it. And of course Sean's been on it. Russ AFF was on it, but anyway, you can go to anywhere. You listen to podcasts, look up the Rick T show. Ariel Martinez (46:52): Well, we put in links to that in the description, Rick, thanks so much for taking the time and, and sharing your work. I Rick Altizer (46:58): Hope this was helpful. This was amazing. Some way I hope this, I hope this helped. I mean, I'm, I just felt, I felt like I was just kind of rambling. So, you know, I hope it was Ariel Martinez (47:07): Helpful. I learned a lot in documentary storytelling, so I appreciate that. Um, and I know definitely my audience hopefully got some nuggets side of this too, but it was definitely beneficial. I feel well, you, Rick Altizer (47:21): Well, I'll say for documentary storytelling, you can always grab the B-roll later, but that interview is where it's all happening. So it really is about that interview, getting that right. And there's, there's a lot of ways to do that. Right. And there's a lot of ways to do that wrong. I see a lot of things that look amazing, but it, it's not human. You know, it's missing, not that it's not human, but it's missing. There's way more. Are there that you don't get two or three layers underneath? There's something there that's really powerful and really deep. But if you're all worried about how it looks, you're gonna miss it. So it, it has to be how it feels, you know, how it, how it's feeling, what it's saying, how it's communicating That's story. Story's not about how it looks. Story's all about how it communicates. So being aware of that, when you do the interview, I want to, I want, I wanna set a stage, set, a tone. That's gonna help this person communicate the best and whatever they feel comfortable with sharing. I want to get as deep as they'll go as, as deep as they'll go. I want to get there if they'll do Ariel Martinez (48:39): It. Thanks so much for that. Those Rick Altizer (48:40): Are things, nugget things. I've learned that I hope, yeah. That I hope help someone hope someone's listening to this and goes, wow, that's really gonna help me. I've got an interview next week. This really gonna help me do that interview. So Ariel Martinez (48:50): Fan fantastic. Thanks so much for taking time outta your busy schedule and, and sharing sharing. Oh, Ariel. Thanks. Rick Altizer (48:58): Thanks for wanting to hear what I had to say. I didn't do one interview for the movie. Ariel Martinez (49:04): Oh man. Well, I'm glad we got one. The first one, Rick Altizer (49:08): This is the first interview I've done for the movie. Other on my own show. Ariel Martinez (49:12): Oh man. 

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